@Elfie this is what you get for cooperating with cops lol

@animeirl
Still need them tho

@Elfie not the kind we have now

@animeirl
Implying there was any difference before

You're either a boomer or a boomer gave you that idea, which one is it?

@Elfie ok boomer

@animeirl
It's the kind of silly thing a boomer would say

"Back in my day!" Same crap

@Elfie that's not what was said though. is english not your first language?

@animeirl
I'm only quoting your last post

@Elfie police weren't really a thing prior to the 1800s

@animeirl
You do realize that the context is wildly different now days right?

I don't really think that the political practices from 2 centuries ago would be of any use now:blind_cirno:

@Elfie you said police have always existed and were always the same.

@animeirl
Because in modern society they have, there are no good or bad cops just cops and there is no realistic possibility to replace cops at least I don't see it

@Elfie @animeirl The equivalent of cops is worse the further you go back in history

I know a lot of right wing people (and I guess, also left wing people) call the police nothing more than "armed mafia thugs" but that really *was* what town guards were, just paid killers by the local lord and usually were trained more for a military response than any kind liaison between state and civilian

I mean, back then people were pretty desensitized to violence as well, if someone got stabbed for fighting the town guard it would just be free entertainment, not talk about police brutality

@Majkatsu
I completely forgot that, this user complains about police when way back it was worse, there was no ethical or moral approach to anything much less trials

You're complying because you're comfortable, wonder who's keeping you safe...

By the way good morning mum




@animeirl

@Elfie @animeirl There were still some forms of trials, depending on when and where, but even in the 17-19th century they were not exactly fair and didn't account for anything other than the events that occurred rather than taking into context why they had, like modern trials

I still wouldn't cooperate with the police if it didn't involve me though, I'm just also not stupid enough to think that removing the police would solve any problems since most of the things people complain about have nothing to do with them but rather how the justice system works in general

but yeah, iirc this is opal, and they're pretty dumb so d/w about it

@Majkatsu
Oh I didn't realize it was opal

@animeirl

@lain im too stoned to get into it but i have my own theories

@lain @animeirl shitty incentives, not good enough screening, corruption, people not respecting each other

@shpuld
Because an iron hand gives political stability, citizens are not to be protected they are a danger to themselves



@lain @animeirl

@Elfie @animeirl @lain it's so sad to see people take american police as the norm, meanwhile in more peaceful countries like finland or japan the police is actually helpful and not something you need to watch out for. so much more trust going both ways

@shpuld
Because they've got different cultures

Cops will be cops but culture goes a long way making the relation less oppressive

Besides you have to take into account foreign interests and local interests, cops are as hostile as the environment they are in and when has the US been in a peaceful spot in modern times?



@animeirl @lain

@Elfie @animeirl @lain yeah I know that's a big factor, when you're literally risking your life every day while working a job like that, you'll have less trust towards your citizens that you're supposed to protect, and also they have to have lower standards for people they take into the force when more people don't want to risk their lives

@Elfie @animeirl @lain still doesn't excuse 1) shitty incentives when it comes to bonuses and stuff 2) not enough repercussions for cops doing shit they shouldn't do 3) shitty training 4) corruption

@shpuld
We live in a society is a meme but many of the ugly things are there because that's the only way humans figured out how to make society works

Of course that doesn't mean there is nothing to improve there certainly is


@animeirl @lain

@Elfie @animeirl @lain I think US is just fucked when it comes to this stuff, you can't create trust and respect out of thin air anymore

@shpuld
It would certainly be quite a feat given the size and how many of these things became cultural and political phenomenons

But I would say it is possible, the more populated the less iq, the more developed the more reliability on media

It's just that it's quite a big change and expensive change imo


@animeirl @lain

@shpuld @Elfie @animeirl @lain Japan's justice system is even worse than Americas though
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@Majkatsu @Elfie @animeirl @lain we were talking about how cops treat the people and maintain order, not what happens when you've done something fucking stupid and got caught

@shpuld @Elfie @animeirl @lain Well that's the thing, it's very easy for mistrial

The reason why people don't act stupid around police in Japan is because they are more respectful to each other, but also because if you slip up you're going to have a pretty hard time

Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is a real danger, to ignore that part of the system and just how much criminals (or if you were even on trial at all and proven innocent) are treated like second class citizens socially is dumb and why it's not a good example

People are just as terrified, just in a different way

@Majkatsu @Elfie @animeirl @lain people go to police boxes to get help and shit, that's pretty far from being terrified by the police, they speed like crazy, that's far from being terrified by the police, they continue their business as usual no matter if there's bicycle cops and stuff around. it's not like you'll get shot if you act suspicious in the wrong part of the town. when people complain about cops in japan it's usually about random bag searches that foreigners can get, people hardly get into serious trouble unless they're doing drugs and stuff. even if the cop is an asshole he can't arrest you for nothing. I don't buy what you're saying at all from my experience there.

@shpuld @Elfie @animeirl @lain Most people will call the police for help, even "I DO NOT CONSENT" liberals in America do


Obviously yes it depends on what the crime is, and yes they don't shoot people in the street, which is why I said the reasons and methods are different but they aren't exactly the greatest either, it's all social dogmatic pressure like everything else in Japan

Cops can't arrest you for nothing but they need much less evidence than most other countries do, besides maybe America I guess depending on the state, but again it depends on what it is they think you did

You don't have to believe me, it's just very obvious that when you examine their society, their justice system, and the ways it is weighted towards, the low crime rate there is not exactly a mystery

@Majkatsu @Elfie @animeirl @lain if you actually go there, you can tell the low crime rate isn't just from how the law and order work, people in general respect each other much more, they respect the society around themselves much more. it's honestly just beautiful to see even as a foreigner that doesn't fit.

@shpuld @Elfie @animeirl @lain I don't know how many times I have to say that the social environment is also a factor and not just the justice system, but you keep citing it

@shpuld @lain @animeirl You sounds like Han Fei.

@veer66 @animeirl @lain never heard of him, is that a good thing? w

@shpuld @lain @animeirl I don't know whether it is good or bad, but his philosophy has influenced China for more than 2,252 years.